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Me and Lord Krishna!
by Dr. Varanasi Ramabrahmam
I recently had a delightful conversation with Lord Krishna, the eighth incarnation of Lord Maha Vishnu. The conversation has been in a dialogue form and the same is presented below.
The conversation did not take place in a particular order. That day I went for a morning walk. I was walking through a beautiful garden. The trees, the leaves, the creepers, the flowers, the fruits and the greenery greeted me with love and affection. I made enquiries with the buds, blossoming flowers and have observed the nature around. Just then the spring has set in. The cuckoos are singing hiding here and there after eating the tender mango leaves. The birds made pleasing and harmonious sounds. The cool morning breeze has touched me gently and made me feel better. The sun is rising in the east.
When I am experiencing pleasantness and am joyful, I saw a figure under a mango tree appear before me. ‘Kasturi tilaka’ is on His forehead. He has worn ‘Pitaambara’. A garland made of “mandaara” flowers is gracing His neck. Peacock feather is gleaming on His head. The tender bamboo stick touched by His rosy lips is playing melodiously the ‘Bhoopala raaga’. Adorned like this, appeared before me the sky-blue complexioned God; the Lord who takes care of you and me; the venerated spouse of Goddess Lakshmi. He became the vision that filled my eyes. I ran towards Him like a released arrow with excitement, eagerness and joy. I reached Him and fell at his feet like a flower. My hands touched His lotus-feet. Raising my head, I looked at Mukunda. My eyes became tearful. Tears rolled down my cheeks. With tears of joy I washed the feet of the Lord.
My excitement subsided. I became cheerful. Looks expressing devotion as leaves, affectionate salute with folded hands as sweet fruits, the chant of Narayana astaakshari as water and heart filled with love for Him as flowers, I offered the Lord and worshipped Him. He smeared my body with His hands, wiped out my tears and comforted me like my beloved and caressed me like mother. I closed my eyes in delight and enjoyed the hug of the Lord like a child. With the touch of Narayana, I experienced inexplicable bliss.
Then I spoke to the Lord: You make us speak; you make us learn the alphabet, the language, the sciences, the arts and skills, and the tatva; you make us compose poetic works; you feast us all with the delights of our chanting your name. In which sequence of words shall I sing your glory my Lord, so that I am happy and you are delighted? You create all the tunes and fill the universe with melodious sounds. Nature overflows with joy by listening to your musical notes. How shall I sing your praise, in what raaga, except with anuraaga! I do not observe any austerities. I do not know what meditation is. Mantra and tantra, I never heard about. Though my mind is always counseling to chant your name always, I am neglecting because of my laziness. Due to lack of discrimination I am unable to distinguish between the right and the wrong. In such a state of mind, I am unable to retain your form in my mind. Take care of me, Oh! Savior of Gajendra!
Then Lord Krishna spoke enchantingly: I am you and you are I. There is no difference between us. Can you differentiate between water and water? In quality and essence you and I are same. Feel free with me. Then the following conversation has taken place between me and Lord Krishna.
I: I have some questions to ask you.
Lord Krishna: Proceed.
I: Many human-beings are either unable to show love and affection to their kith and kin, and near and dear, or fellow human and living beings, but are devoted to You deeply. Do You accept such devotion?
Lord Krishna: No. One must love and show affection to one’s kith and kin, and near and dear and fellow living beings first. Then they can be devoted to Me. I approve of and accept such devotion only. Neglecting near and dear ones and claiming as my devotee will not make one spiritual and such persons are not dear to Me.
I: What is our best prayer to You?
Lord Krishna: Your compassionate behavior towards fellow human beings, living beings and concern for the conservation of nature, is the best prayer to Me.
I: We have among us genuine devotees, enlightened spiritual persons and also fundamentalists in all religions. How is it You all Gods are tolerating the dastardly acts of the fundamentalists?
Lord Krishna: We, all Gods of all religions are like sun light, water, air, earth which sprout and sustain any kind of seed, and both crop and weed are allowed to grow simultaneously.
I: Why won’t you Gods remove the weed so that the crop is saved?
Lord Krishna: Just as the removal of the weed is the duty and in the interest of the farmer, so also to eliminate fundamentalists is the duty of the rulers in the interest of the societies. Just as when farmer fails in his duty, sunlight, water, air and earth can not be found fault with and blamed; so also the failure in duty of rulers can not become basis to find fault with Gods and blame them for the acts of the fundamentalists. And a superior only guides and counsels, and will be insprring the subordinates to act. Superior acts when the subordinate fails in his duty; that any way I am and other Gods are doing from times immemorial. The subordinate has to be conscious of one’s duty. You can not expect the superior only to act always. It is neither possible nor advisable/desirable.
I: To whom do You belong?
Lord Krishna: We, the Gods of all religions belong to the creation as a whole.
I: Do You, the Gods of religions take care of persons of respective faith only or you take care of every one irrespective of one’s faith?
Lord Krishna: We do not segregate persons into faiths and take care of them. Any of Us will take care of any person of any faith and We are never confined to the denominations created.
I: But the religious preachers of various religions claim that their respective Gods alone can and will save the faithful and force us to join that faith and also talk derogatorily about Gods of other religions.
Lord Krishna: It is their innocence and foolishness.
I: Why You have created so many religions?
Lord Krishna: I have a question for you. Why have You created so many languages?
I: They have just evolved.
Lord Krishna: So also faiths have evolved.
I: You are the Lord and how is it that You are supporting the concept of evolution.
Lord Krishna: Because both creation and evolution are My sports only.
I: Who is God? Can we define?
Lord Krishna: Put the question as “What is “God”? Human inquisitiveness and enthusiasm is God.
I: The same question again, what is God?
Lord Krishna: “Atmabudhiprakaasam eva divyatvam va daivam cha”. He explained: God is the glow of your mind. He is the reservoir of compassion in you as your inner grace and love. God or Divinity is the invisible force in you and is being experienced without your being conscious about it and you will be able to experience it consciously too. All your mental activities are Divine guided by Divinity. God is present in you always as Divinity and whenever you are ego-free or transcended your ego that Divinity glows inyou as serenity, peace and bliss. In reality and essence He is You. Thus Human consciousness filled with peace, silence and bliss is God. Human mind absorbed in these is known as released mind. The mental state then is moksha.
I: Why God causes miseries to human beings?
Lord Krishna: God does not cause anything but happiness and peace to human beings. God’s language is compassion. Everything else is human creation, illusion and misunderstanding. Wrong knowledge leads to misery. Right knowledge keeps mind peaceful.
I: What is right knowledge?
Lord Krishna: Knowledge is always compared with light and illumination. Possessing right knowledge is getting illumined. The knowledge which gives peace of mind and which prevents from losing this peace of mind during the vicissitudes of life is the right knowledge. Thus the right knowledge dispels our already acquired knowledge not able to give us peace of mind, which elders compare with darkness (tamas). Elders warn us that such acquiring and possession of right knowledge can make one arrogant. Actually one must be very careful and should not fall in more darkness by using it for self-aggrandizement (andham tamam pravisanti). The knowledge that humans are limited in their abilities, capabilities and the realization that one must cultivate humility and keep equanimity of mind both in elated and adverse situations is also right knowledge. You must also know that being religious and being spiritual differ slightly but profoundly. One can be spiritual without being religious. Religion is the dress and ornaments we wear. Spirituality is our essence. Shedding ego is essential for progress in spirituality.
I: Why human beings are angry with and violent to fellow human beings and make all lives miserable? And why are You not preventing such atrocities?
Lord Krishna: We do not want to rob the human beings of their independence and liberty. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Even Gods can not poke their noses into such situations. The course chain of action and reaction has to get completed. Then only We can act.
I: You spoke more as a physicist than God. What are the means of Your action?
Lord Krishna: The compassionate hearts amd wise minds of humane human beings are our means of action. We act through them at the appropriate moment. We seldom act independently and individually.
I: What is your comment about people who consult astrologers, vaastu experts, numerologists, swaamis, sanyaasis, baabaas, ammaas, and the like?
Lord Krishna: Such reliefs are the attraction of weak and anxious and wavering minds not containing Me. The minds filled by Me do not get attracted to these reliefs. Believe in Me, you are relieved of every physical, mental, or other afflictions. Did I not say in Bhagawadgita, ananyaan chintayanto maam ye janaaha paryupaasate teshaam nitaabhiyuktaanaam yoga kshemam vahaami aham sarva dharmaan parityajya maamekam saranam vraja aham twaam sarva paapebhyo moksyayishyaami maa suchaha
I: Why people feel miserable?
Lord Krishna: They feel miserable when events do not take place as they expect or when they do not get the things they aspire for; and when unexpected things happen.
I: But poverty also makes one miserable.
Lord Krishna: Yes. That is why haves must also take care of the have nots.
I: Lord Budddha says desire is the root cause of misery.
Lord Krishna: Desire is not the root cause of misery. The nature of human beings is to desire. There is no problem with desiring. The person who desires must know that what all one desires one need not or may not attain. They must be ready for disappointment also. Then there is no misery. One must cultivate the trait of taking things in one’s own stride and must learn the art of absorbing pleasant and unpleasant words, events, and happenings.
I: Why human beings sometimes suffer for no apparent reason?
Lord Krishna: It is in human nature to suffer. When there are no real afflictions, one invents some. Continuous happiness bores individuals. And it is in nature also; order and disorder follow each other. It is a universal rule.
I: Why so many isms have proliferated? Why You allowed such proliferation?
Lord Krishna: Origin and evolution of isms are natural processes just as the sprouting and growth of vegetation. Every kind sprouts and grows. It is your wisdom which must decide which vegetation must be allowed to remain and which is to be rooted out.
I: You are not taking any responsibility.
Lord Krishna: I have already told that We act through living beings; and through animate and inanimate things too. They are both our medium and means of action.
I: You told that human inquisitiveness and enthusiasm is God. Can I also add that God is a beautiful, romantic, pleasant, blissful and peace-giving imagination, feeling and idea of human beings.
Lord Krishna: You have put it very beautifully. And it is always a puzzle whether We created you or you created Us. But it is a fine and beautiful arrangement. You made your transitory lives significant and purposeful by inventing Us, the Gods.
I: It seems to me that we mutually created each other.
Lord Krishna: Yes, true.
I: What is Your message to non-believers?
Lord Krishna: Let the non-believers scrutinize their behaviors and limitations before denying My Existence or before ridiculing and abusing God and believers. Let them live righteously. When you live righteously you need not believe in any. Righteousness protects you. Dharmo rakshati rakshitaha; Criticizing God and Divinity is not righteousness. It is not civilized behavior too. Atheists are also believers. They believe that I do not exist. Devotees believe that I exist. How is it, one belief is rational and other is not when both are beliefs only. This is all the play of different peculiar natures and traits in humans. It is not essential to believe in the existence of God. It is essential to have belief in oneself and in one’s existence and to possess compassion. Compassion is a Divine Quality. Everything else is futile discussion and waste of time. It leads no where.
I: Why You distract us with attractions and entertainments like cinema, TV, etc., and keep us glued to them; and not allow us to remember You, chant Your sweet divine Name and see that we are always engaged in Your smaranam.
Lord Krishna: I do not do anything here. Only your natures guide you.
I: Why won’t you prevent us from such engagements doing something to our natures?
Lord Krishna: I only can transcend nature.
I: And also we view, find and experience You, Your Divinity and Presence in the love of men for women, women for men, husbands for wives, wives for husbands, parents for children, children for parents, humans for humans, and among other creation. And this compassionate and delightful sport of You, making us see you in and among us, is most dear to me.
Lord Krishna: A very shrewd and aesthetic observation. I bless you.
I: You said in Bhagawadgita, Karmanyevaadhikaraha te maa phaleshu kadaachana maa karmaphala hetur bhoohu maa te sango stva karmani I have something to say and ask about the above utterance of You. I want to do my bit in all my endeavors. But I can not stop myself from thinking about the result of my action. But You forbade such thinking and asked us to just do our bit without thinking about the fruits of our doings and leave everything to You without getting entangled ourselves with the actions we perform. When we do not have attachment to our actions or fruits can we have motivation to act at all? I, of course, know that we need Your grace for everything to give fruits to our actions. Please resolve this dilema in me. Some how I am not able to leave everything to you and I feel that as irresponsibility.
Lord Krishna: You follow your intuition. Thoughts, feelings, volitions, and the like are generated by samskaara – the inbuilt tendencies which are genetic and previous karma - i.e., earlier actions.
I: Even though You said in Bhagawadgita, Vaasaamsi jeernaani yathaa vihaaya Navaani gruhnaatu naro aparaani Tathaa sareeraani vihaaya jeernaani Annyaani samyaati navaani dehee I intuitively believe that there are no further births and rebirths. Then from where this previous karma is accumulated.
Lord Krishna: What do you mean by births and rebirths?
I: When this body dies the soul transmigrates and attains a new body as torn out clothes are shed and new ones are worn- and this is the meaning of your utterance “vassamsi jeernaani...” quoted by me above.
Lord Krishna: Your understanding about births and rebirths is not proper. Birth means, rise of ego, or self-consciousness in the form of me, mine, identifying falsely the “I” with the body and associated mental traits, gender, nationality and social status etc., and associated thoughts; death means absorption of this ego in Atman or Brahman and cessation thoughts about false “I”. Then the ego sets. Soul is not correct translation for Atman or Brahman. “Self” is the correct translation which represents and signifies the word Atman fully and completely. Rise of ego when we wake up from sleep is birth. Absorption of ego in Atman in deep sleep is death. Again rise of ego when we wake up is rebirth. That is all. There is no transmigration of Atman as many believe. Like this rise and set of ego happens for all the duration of the body living. Only these are births and deaths. Indulging in or engaged in or involved in feelings, thoughts, moods and the like is living. Cessation of these is dying. All this happens in the observation of Prajnaanam, i.e., My Self. I am Prajnanaghana and am the witness and seer of all happenings within and without the body. Human beings normally have to live for hundred years. Some may die earlier and some later. Once the body becomes inert, that is, dies, everything ceases to be. We can perform all our duties and actions as long as the body is alive. All your learning, knowing, perception, reasoning, intellectual functions, experience, understanding, urges, volitions, teaching, communicating, feeling pains, hurts, joys, esctcasies, and indulging in all kinds of actions happen through the energy generated from Me. Thus all your living and dying before the body actually dies takes place in My presence and observation. And everything, ego, self-consciousness, occurrence of mental functions and their cessations, dissolve in Me daily and absorption of ego in Me while the body is alive is Liberation, or Jeevanmukti. Nothing outlives death of the body.
I: But many interpreted it in a different way and also You are contradicting Your own “vaasaamsi jeernaani…” statement!
Lord Krishna: You have faith in Me and My present Utterance and listen to me. Ignore every other interpretation.
I: Some say that Your devotees are identical with You and are even superior to You. What do You say about this?
Lord Krishna: Anything in limits is alright.
I: What is progress in life and what is living?
Lord Krishna: One will not get in life what all one aspires for. But one must continue living cheerfully and this continuance is progress in life.
I: A Jnaani or enlightened spiritual person is equated with children. Why so?
Lord Krishna: A child’s concentration is completely on what is happening now. And the child completely forgets about it moment after the event. They do not carry any baggage called past or future. They live in the Present. The aim, purpose and use of spirituality are to acquire the ability to live in the Present and be peaceful always.
I: Is it possible?
Lord Krishna: One must not entertain doubts or apprehensions. One must have complete faith. Do not waste time in doubting or apprehending; do your duty properly at the appropriate time unmindful of the result and leave the fruits to Me. If you think of result you can not concentrate on the present work and your efficiency in doing the work suffers and you will not be able to do the work according to your ability and capability. They will be punctured if you divert your attention to the results of your actions.
I: I also like Your Divine Sport of causing us the illusion that we are doing everything by our abilities even though the reality is You doing every thing.
Lord Krishna: I admire and appreciate your humility in ascribing every thing to Me and My ability or sport though the reality is you do every thing and give the credit to me.
I: Lord You are the Master of the Universe. Why won’t You remove unhappiness, difficulties, crimes, atrocities and the like?
Lord Krishna: I long to do it. But you have been not allowing Me to do that.
I: You can punish us for our wrong doings.
Lord Krishna: I have been punishing the wicked from times immemorial, but of no avail. Fresh people do fresh wrongs, crimes etc.,. You always keep Me busy with your wrong doings. You never allow me to take some rest. I have always to be on tenter-hooks and attentive else I may punish wrongly.
I: So this has to go on like this.
Lord Krishna: Yes. Still, Paritraanaaya saadhoonaam Vinasaayacha duskrutaam Dharma samsthapanaarthaaya Sambhavaami yuge yuge
I: What is the use of Your Presence?
Lord Krishna: My Presence gives peace of mind for the needy. I also help them to shine in their respective endeavors. I will make them experience the bliss of achievement just as the Sun just by and through his presence is responsible for all life to go on.
I: Where are You?
Lord Krishna: I am in your Faith, Understanding and heart.
I: Do You exist otherwise?
Lord Krishna: I am present always and everywhere, while you are there, and also before and after your existence. Do you exist?
I: Do not be diplomatic in answering. You are sounding more philosophical and vedantic.
Lord Krishna: I am known for my diplomacy, teasing nature, romanticism and compassion. Vedanta is the description, summing up and essence of all Existence-Mine, yours and Universe’s.
I: You pervade the Universe and are present in every thing and everywhere. So You are associated with cruelty, violence, cheating, killers, and the like negative things and vices also.
Lord Krishna: The things you narrated are not Divine Things or Qualities.
I: So You are not present every where and in everything or in every person.
Lord Krishna: There is no Time or Space, when or where I am not present. But My Presence is superimposed by demonic qualities and I am masked. This is the illusion created by ignorance, false identity and knowledge.
I: You are taking shelter behind logic.
Lord Krishna: I am the Form of Logic and also I can transcend logic. When all reasoning, logic, doubt, apprehension, disbelief die I will shine and one can experience Me.
I: Some monks, Peethaadhipatis, sanyasis, god-men, god-women, feel that they are superior to house-holders and even are arrogant enough to claim that they are Gods themselves.
Lord Krishna: I disappear whenever and where ever ego in any form and arrogance, rise.
I: Many of these “spiritual” practitioners are not genuine, and claim that they took this job to help house-holders cross samsaara and attain moksha.
Lord Krishna: It is their profession and they have to claim like that only. They mastered the art of self-aggrandizing. They spend all their time, energy and ability to build these illusive “spiritual” empires. These persons are like the wooden spoon in the sweet dish. They are always with and in the sweet dish, they serve it to all but they do not know the sweet taste of the dish. If they know the taste they prefer to be silent and humility fills in their minds.
I: So “spiritual persons” like these when not able to shed their ego are another kind of house-holders only, is it not?
Lord Krishna: True. They boost their ego by thinking they are able to attract many successful and rich people of the society and they tend to use the social status of their “devotees“ for personal purpose too. They have more commitments than the house-holders, manage huge properties, large amounts of cash and taint themselves by deluding to indulge in the same forbidden acts which they warn the house-holders to shun.
I: Thus monks, sanyasis etc., engaged in financial transactions and owning properties are also house-holders only.
Lord Krishna: Yes. They are house-holders of different kind. Their dress, ornamental and attractive speeches are used to earn more and more of both money and popularity. They are actually the runners of large house-holds.
I: So just claiming they abstain from sex does not make them sanyasis.
Lord Krishna: Yes. Who is afraid of or shuns opposite sex or sexual enjoyment can not be a spiritual person. Merely abstaining from enjoyment of sex won’t make one spiritual. Sometimes enjoying sex helps one to become and remain a shining spiritual person. You take My example. I have eight wives, sixteen thousand cowherd-damsels, Radha and the like and I enjoy sex with them. But I am known as “nitya brahmachari”. Keeping the mind clean and unwavering and not identifying with the doer and not attached to the fruits of action makes one spiritual. You eat food when you are hungry and just will forget about it once it is over and until you are hungry again and will be involved in your other duties undisturbed. Same is true with enjoying sex. Any one shuns or is afraid of women is a coward and is behaving against nature and ends up in always thinking about opposite sex and sex with them.
I: Why these gurus bore us with many dos and don’ts which they themselves exempt from and try to look down us for doing all these natural things?
Lord Krishna: These commercial spiritual workers as I said earlier, never tasted the bliss of being spiritual. How can they make you experience it? Their scholarship, conversational and oratory skills, money and vanity around amuse you and attract you. Note: A real guru is like catalyst in the chemical reaction. He enhances the speed of happening of the reaction and once the reaction is complete just leaves. He only enhances the rate of the reaction. He never participates in the reaction and remains the same before and after the reaction. You only will change. Once you change, there is no need of any guru any more.
I: You know much chemistry too. And if the Guru leaves, after the reaction has taken place, how we will proceed in spiritual quest from then onwards?
Lord Krishna: I am omniscient. I know all disciplines. Your intuition plays the role of guru and guides after your guru leaves you. Real spiritual teachers know this and their concern is always to help you and not get help from you or make you their slaves for life. The popularity and fame attained by fake gurus make them arrogant boosting their ego and this will lead to their downfall. Such people can never attain moksha. And can never help their devotees attain moksha.
I: What is moksha (salvation)?
Lord Krishna: I answered this earlier. Again listen. Shedding ego and not having self-consciousness is moksha. Once self-consciousness gets dissolved, I, who am present always within you as Prajnaanam, will shine as pure consciousness, peace, bliss, silence and unoccupied awareness. You will be I. And moksha is attained by the Grace of God. Your intense desire to attain moksha and practice of spiritual methods make God to have Grace on you and lead and guide you till moksha is attained by you. God’s Grace is like grip of tiger. Once it gets the grip, tiger never allows the prey to escape from it. So also God never leaves the aspiring devotee till devotee attains moksha. From then onwards it is the business and duty of God to take care of you and give you moksha. Your only duty during this period is to adhere to His words, teachings and the wise words of seers and sages and the dos and don’ts prescribed by them.
I: You said that if we desire intensely and are in the spiritual path sincerely, God showers His Grace and takes us into His fold. But observation of me and others is also that God is sometimes partial in showering His Grace and does it selectively. Some devotees are pampered and also are dealt with special care and some others are tested and not cared for despite their sincere prayers and genuine devotion.
Lord Krishna: Yes I too am aware of two ways of Lord’s attention for His devotees. The two ways are known as ‘maarjaala kisora nyaayam’ and ‘kapi kisora nyaayam’. In ‘maarjaala kisora nyaayam’ Lord takes care of the devotees as mother Cat takes care of its off spring. The Lord Himself on His own completely graces and guides them even before they make efforts to reach God. Such concern is shown in initiating and sustaining His love and affection for them. In ‘kapi kisora nyaayam’, the devotees cling and clutch to the Lord as the monkey infant clings and clutches its mother monkey firmly and strongly and the mother monkey appears indifferent to and unmindful of the infant and jumps from one branch to another with utter disregard for the safety of the off spring. The off spring alone appears concerned and the mother monkey not at all. But these are only two different ways and the Lord is equally compassionate and merciful. Devotees are made to always think of Him in both the processes. Apparent indifference in the second case is sport of the Lord.
I: You said You are Omniscient, are You adept in sciences, arts, skills, languages and fine arts?
Lord Krishna: Yes. From Me only all these have originated and will dissolve in me only at pralayam.
I: What is pralayam?
Lord Krishna: The mental phase or state when all mental functions in the form of experiences, understanding, moods, intuitions, urges, senses, meanings, thoughts, feelings, perceptions, knowing, learning, teaching, communicating, cease to be. The phase of Brahman or Atman experiencing bliss, peace and silence is the state of pralayam.
I: So pralayam is not the time when all the universe is inundated with water and You alone remain on Adisesha in yoga nidra.
Lord Krishna: Yes. In the word yoga nidra, yoga means of union; union of ego, self-consciousness, possessed by individuals with Me and nidra means cessation of all the mental activities. I am the source, sustainer and dissolver of mind, its functions and the projections it creates of the external and internal world as knowing, perception, logic, reasoning, experience, understanding, insight, mood, urge, intuition, volition, language capabilities, secular and subject knowledge and skills and their performance.
I: I know that music is flow of harmonious sounds in the form of tunes; language and literature as flow of sense and meaning; social sciences and physical sciences as flow of concepts, ideas, expressing and leading to understanding and insight; philosophy as flow of experience. What is spirituality?
Lord Krishna: Spirituality is flow of peace, bliss, silence, unalloyed love for the Lord releasing one from bonds and makes one liberated, independent and free from unnecessary disturbing feelings, thinking, and helps in efficiently performing one’s duties in worldly activities.
I: Both sinners and righteous people seek Your help, to whom You respond?
Lord Krishna: I respond to everyone. I will see to it that justice and truth prevail over malice and selfish intentions.
I: What is your opinion about love?
Lord Krishna: Love and lust happen naturally and transcend societal expectations, restrictions, obligations and morals. My love affair with Radha is an illustrious example in this regard. It is advaita in practice.
I: If morals are not followed in love and lust, will it not be a negative example and role model and lead to chaos?
Lord Krishna: Love happens naturally. Love happens as south breeze touches; as flowers bloom; as moon-light cools; as sunshine warms; as affectionate and dear touch soothes; as rivers flow; as currents swirl; as waves drench; as rains pour; as bliss fills; as peace descends and as Divinity obliges and illumines. Loving is a delightful human trait. The one who is not drenched by rain and who has not fallen in love does not exist. Love defies logic or reasoning or standards in all aspects and respects. The origin and dissolution of the Universe and other happenings are alternate order and chaos and sometimes simultaneous order and chaos. Love, when associated with sincerity, and the love is unalloyed, is a sure means for attaining advaita state of mind, that is, the state of bliss, peace and silence.
I: Rajneesh also said this.
Lord Krishna: He confused love with enjoying sex and confined to sexual act, thus attracted many in his initial days and got stuck there. Love of his brand is not enlightened and emancipating. The joy given by carnal pleasure is not extended and transcended. The act is a first step and not the only step in the path of attaining spirituality and salvation. Many waste their lives in indulging in the physical intimacies and will never reach spiritual heights. That is why Rajneesh himself could not save from the disgrace he experienced in the last phase of his life. Love is primary trait of living beings. But in practice it is confused as just engaging opposite sex with intelligent words and phrases and acts, without both individuals surrendering their identities to the sublime faith, understanding, and insight needed for success, bliss and contentment, So most of the times ditching takes place and hearts break. Love is a double-edged knife. One must handle it carefully.
I: Is it a must that we must follow brahmacharyam to have a glimpse and then an experience of You?
Lord Krishna: What do you mean brahmacharyam?
I: Abstaining from sex!
Lord Krishna: The meaning of brahmacharyam is to freely roam in Brahman. All the seers always enjoy the meanings of spiritual expressions (vedaanata vaaakyeshu sadaa ramanti) and merge their minds in the purport and import (essence) of the expressions. That is called brahmacharyam. And thus brahmacharyam means to keep Me always in your thoughts, feelings and moods and have an understanding and insight of Me in and through all your actions-secular and spiritual.
I: So one can happily enjoy sex and also can be a spiritual aspirant.
Lord Krishna: Definitely and undoubtedly. Spirituality never forbids fulfillment of natural desires. The desire to have sex is as pious as the desire to attain moksha. “kaami gaaka mokshakaami kadu” - that means, one who does not know to desire can not desire moksha also.
I: Societal objections?
Lord Krishna: Take care of them. I will take care of you. Always chant my name.
I: Some are engaged in the refurbishing of culture, religion etc., and feel but for them nothing happens and feel they are superior to ordinary folks like me and they many times completely forget You and take credit for all their achievements and also are hijacking Indian culture for selfish purposes. Why are You allowing this and are not ridding them of their illusion and uncultured acts?
Lord Krishna: All actions are inspired by rajo guna. Such persons will have such tendencies. I will enter when they are completely masked by illusion, and I shall do the needful for the society.
I: You said that you know all subjects, skills, fine arts and languages? How is it possible?
Lord Krishna: Know that I am saastra yoni, the womb of all knowledge. Know that I am silence, the essence of all the languages. Languages in the form of meanings, sentences, words and expressions originate and dissolve in silence thus enabling you to know, cognize, perceive, intuit, experience, understand and become knowledgeable, scholars and intellectuals.
I: Numerous sects are available in Hindu religion believing in many Gods and Goddesses. How You reconcile them and maintain harmonious relationship among them? Is there a superior sect in Hinduism?
Lord Krishna: As God it is my duty to keep harmony in society, creation and universe. Not only We, the Gods and Goddesses, manage Hindu sects, but also all religions together.
I: Do You all Gods of all religions meet regularly?
Lord Krishna: Yes We meet and try to reconcile through humane human beings. We will be continuously striving and trying for peaceful coexistence of all human beings of all denominations, nature, other living beings and the whole Universe as a whole.
I: Why You have created caste system? You so clearly claimed about it in Bhagawadgita saying “mayaa srustam ..” and took the credit for that.
Lord Krishna: A seer like you put those words in my mouth.
I: Did You not create caste system?
Lord Krishna: When human being is clouded with ego and illusive identity with body and social status, creates and sees these differences; when becomes spiritual, does not see these differences.
I: You again turned vedantic.
Lord Krishna: No, not at all. You have studied and are teaching physics. Can same substance be solid and liquid simultaneously? At a particular time and space it is solid. At the same space or another space at a different time it is liquid. When solid is there liquid ceases to exist and is absent. When liquid is present solid ceases to exist and is absent. Same substance transforms both ways under the influence of energy available and environment. Energy changes and transforms. Delusion as superior or otherwise is influence of maya, the virtual form of mental energy. Similarly in a particular phase of mind and perception, one is discriminative. The same person in a different phase of mind with insight is above discrimination. I termed such persons as samadarsinaha in the stanza: Vidyaa vinaya sampanne Braahmane gavi hastini Sunichaiva swapake cha Panditaaha samadarnihana As long as egos exist so long exist these discriminations. Even now you are all not treating all human beings equally. White skinned people discriminate against black and brown skinned people. Political parties, regional group leaders and caste champions, all have their own unchallenged reverse discriminations. Trade union leaders are behaving as caste leaders and created new caste system and are exploiting you. Even now University teachers, bank employees, daily wage laborers, are all not living equally. And all of them have their own egos and identities. They do not agree all of them are equal. They feel superior or inferior. And observe nature, you will realize that equality is a myth and nature possesses all kinds of stuff which are not equal but are different and diverse. Only NGOs and politicians talk about and profess equality even though they breach their own lecturing in action. Profession always brings in vanity. Discrimination for or against exists always. The form of practice only changes. Then or now, certain social and political groups dominate the social scene and corner the benefits. And vehemently denounce and silence who ever points out their selfish behavior, which behavior they criticize in others. All human beings are opportunistic. They commend or criticize to suit their purposes. No one is above board in this regard. If majority agree, injustice displaces justice and glitters as “divine” dispensation. And in practice no one observes and can observe equality. It is impossible. All of you, including the people claiming fighting against discrimination discriminate. Just as a cat assumes that no one is observing it when it drinks milk closing its eyes, so also these fighters against discrimination assume. Until they are rudely shocked and awakened with courage, throwing on their face proofs for their wrong doings and discriminations they practice, they thrive talking and denouncing culture, scholarship, and use caste for their selfish ends and do not allow caste system to be removed. Have-nots are exploited by your politicians in the name of every division. They are actually perpetuating these divisions for their vote bank politics. They will never allow you to get integrated and feel as one nation, race and discrimination and exploitation of citizens goes on unchecked.
I: But there is a long standing and vehement criticism from Buddhism, Jainism days, that Brahmins and Brahmanism are responsible for all societal ills and discriminations for the way they have exploited the other caste and communities’ people in India.
Lord Krishna: Now politicians have taken their place. Politicians now found vested interest in these divisions and never allow you all to feel and live as one society. They won’t allow you to rob them of their livelihood.
I: And I observe that Brahmins were never in charge of technology and engineering in India. Civil and other types of engineering, ship-building, cart- and house building, metallurgy, textiles, dye manufacturing, sculpting, gem polishing, gold ornaments making, making of alloys, all crafts, Dance, music and other fine arts, farming, and all such skills and technological and engineering vocations were never held by Brahmins. Now also the craze is for engineering and technology courses only. Then I do not understand the criticism against Brahmins and Brahmanism that has been going on in India from times immemorial and now, even though they never held engineering and technology professions since ancient times and from the beginning engineering and technology professions have been managed by other caste or community people only. Discrimination as You have commented exists then, and now in a reverse way.
Lord Krishna: Whatever be the epoch, any profession must give livelihood and prevent one from starving and the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter are met. Persons engaged in the professions may change but the professions remain same in any society in any age.
I: You are correct Lord. Various vocations were managed and maintained by various communities. Now also it is happening. But caste in the old sense is used not to have related vocation but to grab seats and jobs in the name of peculiar justice. And are You a God created by Brahmins and are You fond of Brahmins?
Lord Krishna: I am fond of scholarship, spirituality, justness, reality and truth and of course, sringara. I am fearless too to speak about them. I am not fond of just one community. But I am fond of enlightened persons and humane human beings who are righteous, perform their duties and if possible also help their fellow human beings and creation around with compassion, love and care. And I Myself Am not a Brahmin according to Vyasa. And sage Vyasa himself is not a Brahmin in the technical sense of the term and common perception. In reality I am personification of Love and Compassion transcending every division and classification. All are dear to Me. I am dear to all.
I: What do you say about gay and lesbian relationships?
Lord Krishna: What you say about them?
I: These relationships have been existing from times immemorial. Only now we are making a fuss about it. We have so many information giving channels that every phenomenon is grabbed and treated as fodder for getting ratings. I feel giving publicity for every thing is not wise. You must know which one to share and which one to conceal or not care about. Humans are male or female by body and also by mind. In male bodies male hormones and in female bodies the female hormones secrete which make them man or woman. Body is primary and secretions make and form the mind. But if female hormones get secreted in male body, automatically the female mind in male body gets attracted to male body and the same happens when male hormones get secreted in female bodies and such women get attracted to fellow women.
Lord Krishna: You have put it well. The thing here is the secretion of opposite sex hormones in a male or female body; and thus making them have ‘unnatural’ sexual preferences. Sex is ninety percent mental and only one percent physical. That is why Cupid in Indian mythology is called Manmatha-who churns mind and heart. Sex is only one aspect but chief aspect of human lives. That is why it is debated so much. Better ignore such things if one feels unpalatable.
I: Even though I conversed so long and You are gracious enough to answer me with love, affection and care I feel the life of a human being takes the course of a rudderless boat in the vast ocean of time drifting and not sailing in a controlled way. I do not mean that You are not doing anything in relation to this but I get the feeling of left alone or unattended, or allowed to drift, by repeatedly observing the course of lives of myself and my near and dear and also generally the lives of people in the society. And it appears as such that things are happening in a random and not in an orderly way.
Lord Krishna: It is not so. There is invisible force behind. Just as there is an order in the evolution of species there is also an order in the course of human lives.
I: You are again talking more as a scientist, but scientists give the nature of force.
Lord Krishna: Where is the rule that God should not be a scientist? Are your attempts for a unified field theory bear any fruits?
I: We are in the process of unifying and will give the explanation when we arrive at it. For the present we do not have the equations or explanation.
Lord Krishna: That is nice. Just as equations and explanation for your unified field theory are presently not available, so also My explanation about the invisible force influencing, counseling and guiding humans and life systems and the Universe as a whole, is presently not available. I will make it available at the appropriate and appointed time. Until then just believe in Me.
I: Believing and having faith are against scientific spirit.
Lord Krishna: Is it so? Does electron exist?
Lord Krishna: Have you seen it or have conducted the experiment of J.J. Thomson and then accepted the existence of electron?
Lord Krishna: Why are you saying that electron exists and also lecturing about its existence and subsequent science about it? You do not know that you have believed in its existence by having faith in the sincerity of scientists and accepted their authority blindly without you ever trying to prove the existence of electron. Similarly, in spirituality and religion, authority rules and common people accept it without questioning as you have accepted the authority of scientists and are believing in the existence of electron unquestioningly.
I: But, any time any one, can conduct the experiment of J. J. Thomson and verify for oneself the existence of electron.
Lord Krishna: Yes true. Similarly spiritual truths also can be verified. One does not have any right and does not deserve, to criticize spiritual truths without one ever trying to follow the path prescribed and conducting the spiritual experiment. Spirituality is equal to and is even above every secular, scientific etc., knowledge in that sense of scientific spirit and possesses authority equal to them. And you must know that we know through three kinds of means: they are direct, through sense organs, by inferring as chemistry students never see the radical but infer its presence by observing the result of their experimental tests and then faithfully accepting the authority of seers and enlightened spiritual persons just as ordinary science students, teachers, lecturers and professors and research personnel, together with self proclaimed rationalists, and the like, accept the authority of earlier scientists without questioning without ever conducting and trying their experiments with belief and proceed from there; and rationalists blindly support every thing scientific even though they never studied or learnt science. They merely believe in things scientific but question things spiritual. Theirs is selective rationalism. So knowledge is obtained and attained directly through sense organs; by inference; and by accepting authority with faith. These three means are same for acquiring any knowledge, scientific, spiritual or worldly.
I: Thank you Lord for the beautiful and delightful conversation, I take leave of You for now. Be my anchor. Play the role to me as that of earth to trees, basement to buildings, mother to infants, and father to children.
Lord Krishna: Welcome, yes I will be and actually I have been to all of you that since start of Universe and life. I am always for you, in you and with you. You can never take leave of Me. I am you and you are I. Samasta sanmaangalaani bhavantu! Sarve janaaha sukhino bhavantu! Sreerastu! Subhamastu!
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Dr. Varanasi Ramabrahmam
Thank you Kavya for the kind attention and delighting observation. All the best.
Superb! So beautiful... Thanks so much for sharing with us your experience!
Thank you swaroop hp for the kind attention and encouraging observation.