TSCM: Namaskar! Thanks for permitting me to interview you and sparing your time. How and when did you start writing poetry?

SKS: Namaskar. My father was a teacher of English and was a very popular teacher in a University. A lot of students sought his guidance both formally and informally. As a child I used to overhear their conversation about British poets, American poets and Indian poets. His almirahs were full of books about them. At times I would take out his books and start reading but in most of the cases I could not make out what the authors were saying so I waited for our opportunity to overhear a possible conversation about the particular poet / poem / dramatist /drama /novelist etc.

My father was also a creative writer in Hindi and English and several of his poems and short stories had been published in magazines and books. In those days seeing somebody’s name related to you in print was a great thing I felt not only elated but also proud and distinct from other boys of my age. All this kindled a desire in me to write that led me to maintain a diary and write poems. In one of the poetry symposia held at my place I was given a chance to read two of my poems. My effort was applauded but this also made me feel shy and I destroyed my diary. This must have been around 1974-75 I kept on reading literature but did not attempt to write until 1979-80 when I thought of writing a novel in Hindi; I had jotted down just two or three paragraphs which my father somehow read and said they were very powerful and opened the story well but that bunch of papers was lost somewhere and so was the dream to write a novel. I resumed writing poetry in 1983 when I took up a job and also started preserving the poems and rewriting them. But I was not satisfied with whatever I composed and wanted a formal training. I saw an opportunity in pursuing the Diploma in Creative Writing when it was launched with a great fanfare at Indira Gandhi National Open University, New Delhi. I was all the more elated when a newspaper report said that out of more than three hundred odd applicants only about twenty five had been offered admission. The experience was very rewarding though I did not learn to the extent of my expectations as the required resource persons had changed/cancelled their scheduled classes at the last moment denying me the opportunity to come face to face with the teacher/ creative writer to discuss a poem, short story etc. The first collection of my poems From the Core Within (New Delhi: Creative, 1999, ISBN: 81-85231-27-3) contains most of the poems written during the period.

TSCM: Please tell us something about your childhood studies.

SKS: I was born in a village. My grandfather told me that I was physically very fragile and frequently fell ill. On one occasion the family had given up all hope of my survival but my grandpa’s guru (teacher) – a Vaidya (a doctor practising indigenous system of medicine, Ayurveda) – cured and saved me with great difficulty. Since I was the first child in my generation in the family everybody loved me dearly. Therefore, every effort was made to keep me near the family and I was sent to the school in the village of which I still have faint memories. He also told me that I was a touchy child. In an Indian village “From which family do you come?”, “Whose son are you?” etc are normal questions to identify the child. My reply in my broken Hindi used to be, “A man’s and no one else’s.” The family soon shifted to a town where my grandfather had built a house. I spent some years there attending a municipal school next to my house. Later I joined my father who taught in a PG College in a different town for a better education/ care/ tutelage. But I missed the days I spent with my grandfather and grandmother in whose company, I realize today, I had turned into a spoilt brat; I resented the change of place very much.

Both my grandfather and my father were men of strong likings and dislikings. Like most of the intellectuals of the day my father had his leaning towards the left ideology. He can be described as a progressive Brahmin, with inclination towards socialism, Swami Dayananda and English. Naturally, I too learnt to like all of them. Both my grandmother and mother were pious ladies who had suffered a great deal in the patriarchal structure of my family. I owe my strong belief in God to them.

My father wanted me to be a doctor. When I did not show any sign of becoming one he wanted me to be an engineer. So I studied science subjects up to graduation but when he found out that I spent more time with books in literature than in science he advised me to switch over to literature. I, therefore, joined MA in English. It was again at his insistence that I joined M Phil (English) at the University Campus at Meerut abandoning my studies in Business Administration. My stay at Meerut instilled confidence in me to take decisions for myself and under the training and tutelage of my supervisor Prof. T.R. Sharma I started charting my future course of life.

TSCM: What are your concerns as a poet?

SKS: I do not believe in the ‘School of Arts for Art’s Sake’. I feel that as a human being I belong to a particular social group (human beings fall in the category of gregarious animals). I owe so many things to this group that provides me a personal, geographical, social, economical, cultural and political space. Naturally all these spaces make me feel responsible for them. At the same time my limited space has been carved out of a larger space and it has to exist with that. Therefore, I feel that I am not a unit in isolation but a part of the whole, just like a cog in a machine. I feel concerned towards all that feels, persists and exists within my perception and beyond. I try to see various relationships that are apparent and are not apparent in order to understand them and not necessarily to redefine.

TSCM: What perceptible influences are there on your poetry?

SKS: As already hinted above I have come under the influence of the intellectual tradition on both sides of the Atlantic -- roughly described as Hindu/Oriental as well as British/Christian/Occidental.

TSCM: Do you feel social consciousness or ideological approach is necessary for a poet?

SKS: First of all let me clarify that for me social consciousness is different from ideological approach. Social consciousness is concerned with the broader issues of a society while ideology has more to do with the rights of the individuals or the groups and viewing a phenomenon with a particular political angle. A poet has to ponder over the issues that concern individuals and also the social groups and I am no exception to it. What my stand point on different social issues is and how I treat the issues etc. has to be worked out by the readers/critics. I feel good literature cannot be produced in absence of a social consciousness but can be produced even in absence of ideological bias.

TSCM: How do you employ images and symbols in your poetry?

SKS: Poetry basically deals with ideas that are abstract. In order to communicate an abstract idea to another mind a poet has to use certain images and symbols that are derived out of the one’s personal and collective repository/experiences. While some of them would be traditional others might be personal as well. At times the same image/symbol/object may be traditional and personal simultaneously. For example, each one of us talks of having a conscience but anatomically it cannot be located and found out in any body. How to convey -- what conscience is, what it stands for, what it does, what its role is in shaping one’s consciousness/beliefs/routine? I have grappled with this and tried to concretize it in the opening poem ‘Spineless’ of my first collection (1999). I am still grappling with it in my second collection The Door is Half Open (New Delhi: Adhyayan, 2012, ISBN: 978-81-8435-341-9) in the poem ‘Spineless–II’. I do not know if I have been successful in my attempt or I shall keep on describing it in future as well. After all it is ‘conscience’ that is the distinctive feature of the humans as opposed to the animals and it keeps the human world going.

TSCM: What are the recurring themes and images in your poetry? Could you give a few examples, please?

SKS: It is also possible that there is no recurrence since different poems have been written at different times, at different places and in different moods. Still I leave it to the readers to find out and judge. In a big family a mother/mother-figure has to look after the concerns of all her sons, daughters, older people, younger people, so on and so forth. The priorities are decided by the mother seeing the need of the hour. No mother can predict which son or daughter will start crying quarrelling/playing when or how. Accordingly she decides her routine and activities. To a mother there is just one refrain – welfare of her children. Her paying more attention to one than to others does not prove that she is ignoring them. Still, I have already talked about ‘conscience’ above.

TSCM: Do you feel poetry festivals or meets promote poetic creativity? Are they relevant at all?

SKS: Yes and no.

Yes, because a poet generally writes for an invisible reader who suddenly appears before him/her in hordes and immediately reacts in the form of applause or hooting. This fills the poet with extra energy and acts like a catalyst and makes him/her feel more responsible to the public. For example, when a marriage procession reaches the bride’s place not only the groom’s relatives are recharged but the hectic activity straight away increases even amongst the bride’s relatives and friends – suddenly everyone is on one’s toes.

No, because there is always a hidden agenda of the market forces to promote a particular poet/ group/ type.

Despite all said and done, poetic symposia (Kavi-sammelans and Mushairas) are an integral part of our culture. A successful symposium unlike in the west will continue up to the breaking of the day and not only the audience but also the poets regale in it. Such symposia also refine the tastes of the audience and sensitize them to certain issues. So both parties gain in the process.

TSCM: As a poet what is your view of the prevailing scenario?

SKS: Poetry has been the favourite genre of people and it still is. The mind-boggling number of poetry groups on different internet sites proves my point. It brings a large number of people of different age groups together and sensitizes them and strengthens human bonding. There is a scarcity of publishers for poetry but this is not a new phenomenon. After all, a publisher is there in the market to earn profit. The best judge of any creative activity including poetry is time. Where are those who were highly acclaimed in their times, were conferred on several rewards/awards and were declared poet laureates in their heyday today? Where are those who were the Nobel Laureates once upon a time? That is why new literary histories are needed in every age.

There is hectic poetic activity going on these days. Owing to new channels of communication even more interaction is there among poets and critics; physical distance and cultural backgrounds are no more the hindrances in interaction and appreciation of poetry. I have also seen some poets revising their poems five or six times seeing the reactions of the readers. All that not only helps the poet but also proves that readers read and poets respond and both of them wish not only to communicate but also to create a beautiful artefact. Despite this there is a large group of poets who remain contemptuous of poetry on internet and consider only the printed poetry worth any consideration. The politics of those picked up by big publishing houses, small publishers and vanity publishing houses also continues besides that of awards. How do the “blue-blooded, anglicized, Doon School-St. Stephen’s-Oxbridge educated, pro-market, over-confident, bordering on arrogance, self-centred, metro-type, globally inclined” take recourse to extraneous considerations in “silencing authentic voices by usurping the cultural space of the nation” has already been discussed in detail by M Prabha in her book The Waffle of the Toffs: A Sociocultural Critique of Indian Writing in English (New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2000).

TSCM: What are the trends you could notice in post –independence Indian English Poetry?

SKS: Indian Poetry in English (IPE) came into existence under the influence of the British presence in India. There was a growing tendency to imitate the western poets. We are often reminded about Edmond Gosse chiding Sarojini Naidu. Aurobindo wrote entirely a different kind of poetry which was really Indian in taste and flavour. But after independence things did not go Aurobindo’s way and the tendency to imitate the west gained ground not only in English but in regional literatures as well. This is quite natural in a scenario where all knowledge in science, biology, medical sciences, engineering, technology, theories in economics, banking, sociology, psychology, political science, education, history, philosophy, literature etc. is flowing from the west to east. In such a scenario one should not be surprised or dismayed to see a growing tendency to get approval from the western auditors/critics/ audience in the small domain of IPE or even Indian Literature in English (ILE). And with a colonial mind-set this works wonderfully on both sides as the west gains the power to exercise the control by patronising/ reprimanding that was lost in the form of political power. This partially explains the divide between ‘the Metro set’ and ‘the Mofussil set’ of poets.

TSCM: Which trends have gained ground? What is conspicuous now?

SKS: This is an extension of your earlier question and so is my answer. Due to the advent of a free medium and space in the form of internet a very strong stream of reversal can also be seen. Naturally, a sort of synthesis will take place where the west will accept the East and the East the West – at the level of diction, language, structure, poetic form, technique and themes; the chasm between the Metro and the Mofussil will also be bridged.              

TSCM: Could you sum up your views on your poetry?

SKS: A poet has a private space that has to belong to the people. Unless people’s concerns do not find a reflection in a poet’s work it shall not be paid due attention to. At the same time as an intellectual a poet has been the guiding light of the society – (s)he has to be the torch bearer to point out as to what is wrong in the state of Denmark and be ready to face the consequences as well. All this has to be done in a way and in a language that people understand.

TSCM: What is your prognosis of Indian English Poetry?

SKS: IPE is here to stay. It will keep on extending itself in all directions -- physical as well as mental. The west will start taking it more seriously once we become a mightier force in the field of economy and defence. However, it will never reflect Indian reality the same way as Indian regional literatures do. IPE will be reflected on with a sense of awe as well as that of envy by regional poetry.

TSCM: How far have the trends of movements abroad influenced Indian English Poetry? Kindly elaborate.

SKS: As a teacher of English literature I have been exposed to mainly British Literature. It will be presumptuous to say that I have not been influenced by any poet or critic but at times it may be unconscious as well. I recollect how one of the readers brought to my notice the influence of Hardy, Eliot, Yeats and Auden on my images, diction and ideas -- something I had to accept willy-nilly.

Imitation is conscious and I can assure you that I have not imitated any poet. But influence operates mainly unconsciously -- the choice of medium I mean the language, the metre, the structure, the stanza form and the themes are some of the conscious choices but symbols, endings, ideas, technique etc. could be unconscious.

What I have said of my poetry applies to other poets as well. In India, Romantics have been appreciated and eulogised a great deal so the Indian critics still want and appreciate poetry written in that style. Most of the IPE is written keeping in mind the first part of Wordsworth’s definition of poetry only; the second part is ignored conveniently. T S Eliot has been another great influence. Under his influence a large number of poets write scholarly and difficult poetry and try to be obscure unnecessarily. The practice of Vers Libre has opened the flood gates for the poets; the discipline of prosody is too much to be observed. Therefore, there is no effort to reinvent typical poetical forms unlike, for example, the sonnet form was reinvented in England to suit the requirements of English Language. There are some who are exploring Japanese poetic forms but without sticking to the requirement of syllables. There is a group of poets that thinks that uncommon words should be used to make their language bombastic; their purpose is not to communicate but to impress. Some others have started using slangs to prove their proximity to what they describe as American English. With a lot of exposure of American, Canadian, Australian and African Poetry in English and a slow but steady social and intellectual democratisation taking place, individual voices are becoming important and gaining ground and so is their craft. Then various social, political and economic movements are also there to give identity to a poet. The loss of editorial authority has also helped new plants to grow in the garden the way they like.

Unless there is some great critical activity/sensitivity the quality of poetry does not change anywhere. Where are good Indian critics criticising IPE? Most of the critical books on IPE are repetitive and descriptive; there is no point of view in most of them. Where is the true and objective criticism in IPE? Most of the poets in English are the teachers themselves who (or their friends/students/ juniors) are also the critics and exercise a great deal of influence in journals and magazines and selections/ appointments/promotions in various academic institutions/bodies. In such social/political/academic/economic/elite conditions it is very difficult to come across an authentic piece of criticism. Naturally, this affects the quality of poetry as well.

T. S. Eliot could establish himself as a creator of a different kind of poetry and could change the course of British Poetry because of his powerful criticism and various concepts that he enunciated as a critic. For example, on the basis of new parameters (particularly of ‘unified sensibility’) he could prove that John Donne was a great poet who had not been paid sufficient attention or that Hamlet was an artistic failure on the basis of lack of proper ‘objective correlative’. I am sure some critics are listening.

TSCM: How far have these had an impact on your thought of craft?

SKS: I have already explained my position above.

TSCM: Thanks for sharing your erudite views on poetry in general and Indian English poetry in particular. It helps us in appreciating your poetic thought better.

SKS: Thank you.